"The Widowmaker's Gift:" An interview with author J. Paul Luftman, MD

Many thanks to J. Paul Luftman, MD, for joining me on today’s episode of “The Art of Medicine with Dr. Andrew Wilner.” Dr. Luftman has been a family and sports physician for 25 years. He is also the author of the new book “The Widowmaker’s Gift: Balancing Science and Well-Being in Healthcare.” 

Dr. Luftman was prompted to reevaluate life’s priorities after a sudden massive heart attack. “The Widowmaker’s Gift” describes his healing journey as he began to appreciate his many life stresses and compulsion to always please others, often at the expense of his own emotional well-being.

During our 35-minute interview, we discussed his exploration of Western and Eastern philosophies to find a remedy for years of suffering from “Imposter Syndrome” and excessive perfectionism. In his book, Dr. Luftman offers brief, practical exercises for physicians and others to help achieve balance and wellness in their busy lives. 

Dr. Luftman also revealed his new venture, “Saturation of Sound,” which he hopes will help others, especially young physicians facing an overload of information and excessive stimulation from nonstop social media and relentless 24/7 news updates.

To learn more or to contact Dr. Luftman, check out his website:

https://saturationofsound.com

@saturationofsound #burnout #impostersyndrome @theartofmedicine

Please click "Fanmail" and share your feedback!

If you enjoy an episode, please share with friends and colleagues. "The Art of Medicine with Dr. Andrew Wilner" is now available on Alexa! Just say, "Play podcast The Art of Medicine with Dr. Andrew Wilner!"

To never miss a program, subscribe at www.andrewwilner.com.

Follow me on Instagram: @andrewwilnermd

X: @drwilner

linkedin.com/in/drwilner

Please rate and review each episode.

To contact Dr. Wilner or to join the mailing list: www.andrewwilner.com

This production has been made possible in part by support from “The Art of Medicine's” wonderful sponsor, Locumstory.com, a resource where providers can get real, unbiased answers about locum tenens. If you are interested in locum tenens, or considering a new full-time position, please go to Locumstory.com.

Or paste this link into your browser:

https://locumstory.com/?source=DSP_directbuy_drwil...

Transcript

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (0:08 - 1:28)

Welcome to the Art of Medicine, the program that explores the arts, business, and clinical aspects of the practice of medicine. I'm your host, Dr. Andrew Wilner. I've planned a great program for today, but first, a word from our sponsor, locumstory.com.

Locumstory.com is a free, unbiased educational resource about locum tenens. It's not an agency. Locumstory answers your questions on their website, podcast, webinars, videos, and they even have a locums 101 crash course.

Learn about locums and get insights from real-life physicians, PAs, and NPs at locumstory.com. And now to my guest. Today, I am pleased to welcome Dr. J. Paul Luffman. Dr. Luffman has been a family and sports physician for 25 years. He is also the author of the new book, The Widowmaker's Gift, Balancing Science and Wellbeing in Healthcare.

Dr. Luffman was prompted to reevaluate his life's priorities after a massive heart attack. The Widowmaker's Gift describes his healing journey and offers practical strategies for physicians and others to achieve wellness. Welcome Dr. J. Paul Luffman.

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (1:29 - 1:31)

Hi, thank you, Dr. Wilner. Appreciate you having me.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (1:32 - 1:43)

Dr. Luffman, thanks for joining me. I recently had a few days of vacation and I read your book and I found it fascinating. It's just published now, right?

It's just come out?

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (1:44 - 1:55)

Yeah, yeah, this is launch week. It's coming out today and it's in soft copy and ebook and then hard copy is coming and probably next week. And then we got an audio book that I narrated myself that's launching next week probably.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (1:56 - 2:12)

Oh, congratulations for doing that. I narrated my book, The Locum Life, and that is not an easy thing to do. So I have a lot of respect for people that narrate their own books.

How long did that take you?

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (2:13 - 2:25)

I think I was, let's say it was about almost 14 hours of recording time, including the ups and downs, back and forth and editing for about almost seven hours of book time.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (2:25 - 2:46)

Right, that's right. I had to do mine early in the morning before my voice gave out at the end of the day. Well, I think that'll be a fun book to listen to because it's a very personal book, this Widowmaker, and hearing it in your own voice I think would be very interesting.

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (2:46 - 2:47)

Appreciate that, yeah.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (2:47 - 2:51)

So why don't you tell us about it? Why write a book? That's a big job.

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (2:52 - 4:05)

Yeah, you know, I think I was in this automatic living place that I describe a lot in the book. I was kind of on autopilot in my life, doing a lot of things and teaching and seeing patients and raising a family. And, you know, I think there was suffering going on that wasn't really recognized.

I think it was easy for me as a healthcare provider to always look at everyone else's issues and problems and feel for them and, you know, sort of just skirt around my own issues. And it wasn't until I had a near-fatal MI, a heart attack, that really opened my eyes to what was happening around me. And then I think in the process of that, obviously I'm narrowing down, you know, a lot of chapters of the book here, but, you know, I had to, I didn't have to, but I felt in many ways compelled and on a path to understand more about what happened, about my experience, and really there was this incredible sort of intuitive sense that I finally tapped into that said that I think that this suffering was for a reason, and I think I have to tell my story. And I think in telling that story, I'm hoping that it will reach others before they run into similar difficult challenges in whatever shape or form.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (4:06 - 4:40)

So as background, you're in a traditional practice, you were taking care of patients, you had your family, you were very busy, you had a teaching appointment, you did some, I think you did some sports coaching, as I remember. I mean, you're a busy guy, and it's not unusual for people like that, you know, to have type A, high achievers, American males, to have a heart attack. But why was it that your heart attack was different, that it said, something's strange here?

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (4:41 - 6:15)

You know, I think that, although it may seem like type A, I didn't live my life like that. Yes, I was achieving, but I thought I was doing it with the right sense of balance in many ways. I was taking care of my family, I was trying really hard to do things on the side a little bit.

And it just, it kind of just fell apart very suddenly. And I think I didn't fit the paradigm of what you see, when we go to see our colleagues who are cardiologists or other heart specialists in terms of traditional risk factors and things that were there that should have put me into this sort of really extreme situation that I wasn't aware of. And it took some investigation to understand, in my case, why a 48 year old male who had no really traditional risk factors, yes, there was stress, but there was no other real risk factors.

And I think this whole stress leading to physical complications thing, has been an emerging phenomenon, you know, in terms of the way that traditional Western medicine has looked at disease and ailments. And I felt like, again, it was partly, I was being called to talk about that, because it is hard to measure, right? It's easy to measure cholesterol, or years of smoking, or family history, genetics, it's really hard to measure this thing that is stress.

And so, you know, I didn't feel like a type A, but clearly, I was living like a type A. And I think that, I guess there was just something about it that needed to be investigated for me much more in depth, and led me along this crazy winding trail.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (6:16 - 6:52)

Now, you did sort of, I guess, discover that you'd had some childhood experiences that, frankly, were pretty nasty, that I guess you'd sort of just kind of buried, I guess, which you felt were responsible for some of this personality that you, personality trait of trying to help others, and neglecting yourself. And I know in the book, you did a lot of self-discovery with various therapies. Imposter syndrome, that's something we talk a lot about.

Did that affect you?

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (6:52 - 7:47)

Yeah, I think a lot of us are affected in medicine by that. I don't think there's any question it was a huge issue for me. And I think it was because my core wasn't built on self-confidence, it was built on doing stuff for others.

And it's just, I think, in many ways, not sustainable. It may be sustainable for some, but I think for a lot of people, it just breaks down. I think that that sense of, yeah, I'm doing all this, but I'm not sure I deserve it.

I'm not sure I really worked hard enough for it. And, you know, it sort of pushes you to these heights of, I'm going to do this, and then I'll feel good. And then I'll take care of this, or I'll publish this thing, or I'll get this following, or make this tenure level.

It just, it's never enough, you know? And I think it's never enough to calm that voice inside our head that is constantly telling us that, you know, if you just do this a little bit more, you're going to make it finally, and you'll feel good, you'll feel peaceful and happy. And I think that was leftover from my childhood, and that's why I had to go back and really look at it.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (7:48 - 7:51)

But feeling satisfied it didn't happen, right?

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (7:52 - 8:39)

Yeah, very much. I think that it was just never enough to soothe those things that were happening inside, and my life was built on the sense of, like, what others see as success on paper, right? What does a sort of westernized culture, successful life look like for, let's say, a physician or anyone in healthcare?

You know, buy a house, buy a car, have kids, live a happy life, go on vacation once in a while. Sort of this checklist of things that I think most people are striving for that they think will get them to some place of feeling good about things, let alone sort of raising to higher heights in their career. And, you know, if the work isn't done internally, I just think it just, you're always going to feel like you're falling short.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (8:40 - 9:02)

So that's pretty disappointing, right? After all that work, and you do make those achievements. You were successful in your practice, and teaching was going well, and on the face of it, your life seemed to be working, and then, boom, this heart attack comes out of nowhere, and it's like, well, maybe that's a signal that something isn't right.

So is that kind of what it...

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (9:02 - 10:32)

Yeah, I think so. And I think it was really, it was declaring itself in the midst of the heart attack, like the heart attack was the wake up sign. And I know a lot of people don't believe in that stuff.

And I, by the way, had a very... I wanted to be very careful in the book talking about spirituality and things, because for many people, getting into spirituality and God and religion is extremely polarizing, and it can be just as bad as politics, right, or other things. And I wanted to stay away from that and trying to stay positive.

But I think that there was something that needed to happen to wake me up. And I think we all get wake up calls in different ways. But I think there's more going on that I describe in the book, as you probably recall, around us in our universe that's speaking to us that is just hard for our sort of like standard five senses to tell.

And I sort of related it to that. So as I went in deep into the science and physics and all of these things, my grounded westernized self was able to sort of say, okay, there actually is not voodoo or magic going on here with the things in the universe that are speaking to us. There's some real good science now to back this up.

So I can lean into it a little bit more, not necessarily in a different belief system, but lean into the fact that, yeah, I think this needed to happen for me. Unfortunately, there was too many things happening that weren't waking me up. And yeah, I feel like it did happen for a reason.

And, you know, I'm thankful I'm still here and I'm thankful that I'm able to tell my story and I hope it helps others.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (10:33 - 10:54)

All right. So post heart attack and you did a lot of exploration into western and eastern sort of philosophies to try and find some truth to the matter. How are you living your life differently today than say you would have, you know, five years ago before all this happened?

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (10:55 - 12:47)

Great question. I mean, I, you know, I think that there, we have to be careful not to also build in the piece of the perfectionism of like getting well after something like this, that we had when we were struggling and trying to achieve, achieve, achieve. So I'm trying to really slow down and live in the moment.

And, you know, that has a lot of weird connotations for people. And I understand the difficulty of it, but I've learned with these practices to take moments here and there. I'm still busy.

I'm doing stuff. I'm working. I'm taking care of my family.

I've got a lot of, you know, still, still challenges abound, but how I approach it is different and how I approach it, I think is I'm thankful. And I have gratitude that I was able to find this path. And then I'm implementing things here and there.

I wouldn't say that I'm sitting and meditating, you know, an hour or twice a day, or that I'm going to retreats every other weekend or, you know, doing these things that are, you know, I think difficult, I think difficult for most people to really fit into their lives. And most people don't want to just run off and be a hermit. And, you know, I'm suffering so much, I need to just go and sit against a wall and meditate all the time.

And that's partly why I wrote the book. And I hopefully you saw the exercises I put in there are brief enough where I think it's 30 seconds or one minute of awareness in the middle of something that can snap, it may not happen immediately, but added up over time, it seems to bring an awareness to us that we're not our thoughts. There's I like to describe to people this sense of, you know, you're sort of sitting out here for just a brief second looking and looking at yourself going, Oh, yeah, that that's not me.

That's not the core of who I am. It's just how my brain is doing its thing. And little by little, it builds awareness into a sense of wellness, I think that over time, leads to just a better way of living more well being.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (12:48 - 14:48)

If I remember correctly, there was this great line. It's like, well, if we're not our thoughts, who are we? And then it's like, well, I'm the guy that's listening to my thoughts.

I thought that was great. Yeah, I'd never heard that expressed exactly that way. But that that resonated for me, because, you know, your thoughts feel so much integrate.

I mean, that's who you are, right? But no, you're the one who's listening to your thoughts. I thought that was a nice way to kind of step away from what can be, you know, troubling thoughts at times.

Yeah, so I thought that was pretty cool. It sounds like, well, you know, so I mentioned I was on vacation. So on the plane, I watched a lot of movies.

And one of them was Christopher Robin. And Christopher Robin is a tale of Winnie the Pooh. But the whole concept is that this poor guy, Christopher Robin, you know, he played with all of his childhood imaginary friends.

But as an adult, he gets overwhelmed with work. And, you know, he weekends at the office, and his family's becoming more and more distant, and his child misses him. And it kind of you sort of see some rumblings in the background.

It looks like a divorce or separation is in the making. And Winnie the Pooh comes to London to save him as an adult. And so I think this is kind of a universal theme of a lot of us.

I think men and women, you know, the people who are the providers for their families, you know, get caught up in the necessity to provide. But sometimes at the expense of, as you say, living in the moment, and being together with their family. Would you say that was one of the underlying sort of stresses that led to your divorce?

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (14:50 - 17:05)

Yeah, I mean, I didn't want to go in depth into my own divorce. There's a lot of pieces there. It's too much to talk about.

And, you know, it didn't work out for a lot of different reasons. But I felt very strongly that, you know, it just didn't myself along with other pieces have the requisite ability to have a balanced relationship with that partner. And, you know, I think the stresses are so multifactorial, right?

I think that's what we all live with now. And it's even more ubiquitous now than ever with the technology around us and social media and the stressors in our world. I just think it comes back to staying present for little moments of time to be able to actually see what's happening.

You talked about just go back to what you said, you talked about this voice, you know, and I think that until you are in the car, and you turn the radio off, and you just watch it for 45 seconds, and you see what it's telling you, you know, I got to go here, and I got to stop at this place, and I got to, oh, I forgot to talk to this person, I want to get to work, I got to this, and I'm worried about that patient, and my kids, this and baseball, that you start to realize, number one, that it's doing it, and you're seeing you're starting to see it for the first time. And then in that awareness comes that place of stepping out and seeing it. Oh, wow, there is an awareness here that's actually seeing the thoughts.

So I'm not those thoughts. And it's really easy to put into words. For me, right here.

It's very, I think, a lot more nuanced to actually do it. And the experience is not what my words are. And it really, I think, leads to something different and better that can help.

You brought the example of my relationship, but relationships, work stress across the board, because I think, when we're stuck in the loop, we just can't see what's really happening around us. And yeah, we're using our intensive, amazing left sided brains that have been intellectualized and really guiding us. But I think in many ways, there is an intuitive right side that can be brought in even for the most rigorous scientific of minds.

And, you know, people like Einstein, and I brought up the Vedic scholars, you know, have proven this over the centuries.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (17:06 - 17:48)

You know, there's been an explosion of physician coaches. And a lot of them have become coaches because of their own experiences being coached, and they found it was so helpful that they are, you know, I agree with you that the modern stresses are kind of at a level that we're not prepared for. You know, there's been an exponential jump, the 24 seven availability, the onslaught of information, you know, just sifting through it and trying to decide how to manage it can take all day.

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (17:48 - 17:49)

No question.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (17:49 - 18:12)

Now, part of your exploration into other ways of managing stress and wellness had to do with I thought this was pretty interesting with sound. And you you've developed something called the saturation of sound. Can you tell me more about that?

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (18:13 - 20:18)

Yeah, I'd love to. I I'm excited about this. The book itself is sort of the step one of this venture, and I hope to create a community.

I came up with the name or the name came to me, I would say, in a moment of clarity where I was in a sound bath experience, right? It was in a meditative environment, playing ambient music, watching these sort of beautiful, beautiful sort of abstract visual art visuals that was in a church. And it was just an incredible experience.

And I, I sort of slipped into the state where I could hear people talking around me, but I was kind of a little bit otherworldly. And this name came to me. And I think it was a combination of my years that I described in the book, how, you know, really invigorated I've been and how much music in general has enlivened my life, not playing per se, but just taking part and listening.

And I was DJing for many years at the radio station in college. So I think it's some combination of those things that, you know, sort of lit a spark in me. And this name came to me.

And I thought, you know, it's a great, I think it's a great, you want to call metaphor for our current state, right? It has double meaning. I think we are saturated, if you use sound as a proxy for our senses, we are saturated right now with overwhelm, essentially, just stuff coming in, probably at a rate, you know, that's 100x, maybe 1000x more than people even just, let's say, 30 years ago.

If you look at the statistics, right, and the amount of information coming at us, let alone the senses, sound, sight, and everything else. And so there's an overwhelm with that, that I think I was wanting to describe that I have felt. And I think in being saturated in music and sound and frequency, what I did when I went on my journey was I saw that there's a lot of healing to be had there.

And so I loved it. It just it had that double meaning where, you know, it can be both. And I hope to tell both sides of the story.

Here's the difficulty that we're all having. And can we be in awareness? And here's a way of looking at it above and beyond maybe some of the traditional things that we've been used to.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (20:19 - 21:00)

Now, I did a program actually with Renee Fleming, the opera star, and we talked about music and its healing powers. And this is a sort of a current area of investigation. There's a new book about that with many, many scientific investigations of how music affects the brain and how it can be used to create at least a better sense of wellness and maybe even healing.

So saturation of sound. So where do we go with that? Are we listening to certain sounds?

Are we making them? What happens?

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (21:00 - 23:43)

Yeah, I think what I'm going to do is create options. I don't think it's a one size fits all for anyone. And there's people who aren't moved by music, but they may be impacted by sound in the right frequency.

And they may be impacted by just putting it on for a one minute when they're in the shower. It could be having it on in their office or their, you know, while they're working just sort of in the background kind of emanating and, you know, kind of moving over them in the getting stuff done or responding to an email real quick. It's, I think what I believe and what I'm building is a sense of incorporating it in like little bitty itty bitty ways that add up to make it different.

Just like I talked about the sort of mindfulness moments. And so I want to do a speaker series. I want to present the kind of music and sound and quiet contemplation that I speak so much about in the book.

So that's a big part of what I'm going to be hopefully building here. And then the other piece is just really, just like you said, just the amount of literature coming out that's relating to how sound impacts us and trying to allow for a build in that community of other younger people just entering the field who are saying, I want to find other ways of looking at this. I think it's ripe for more investigation, because it's not just well, I listened to Verity and my heart rate improves or this it's, you know, like everything else, what's the aliquot?

What's the what's the dose that's needed? What's the minimum dose that works? Can I do it?

If it's five minutes, five times a week? Is that enough? You know, what type of, you know, not only the frequency, but follow up, is there a lasting effect from doing it, let's say for six weeks, and then sort of falling off all of the things that traditional medicine has looked at, I think needs to be looked at in these principles to the difference is, in the past, it would have been, let's say, promoted by people who want to talk about alternative lifestyles or alternative living or alternative healing. And now I think a lot more mainstream people are jumping into this because there is literature and there is data to support what we're doing, at least early stage, it may not be, you know, large randomized control trials, but you have some really interesting findings that are worth building on.

And so I love the fact that we can combine it. I have this chapter in my book, I'm sure you remember living in the end. You know, let's, let's, let's keep doing what we're doing.

We're making a lot of progress in a lot of areas, you know, we've really advanced wellness and improved mortality and morbidity. Can we also bring some of these more esoteric principles in in the right way, not just with a guru standing up before you saying it works, but really actually testing it and making sure that it's the right thing for the right population and the right way of doing it.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (23:43 - 23:53)

Now, it, it seems like you're, you're coming out now on the other side of all of this. And are you still seeing patients?

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (23:54 - 25:23)

Yeah, I have a part time practice, patients a little bit. I'm a pro team physician. So I'm taking care of athletes.

And I have an administrative role and doing this. So, you know, I'm still busy. But I do like seeing patients still, I just felt that for me, I needed a little bit better balance.

And what I'm doing now kind of works out a little bit better for the situation I'm in. And I think that, you know, I want to create something that especially for the younger generation, I'm around residents and med students and fellows, and I, you know, I see what they're going through. And I know the challenges.

I don't know it personally, because I'm not living in that generation. But, you know, I'd like to be able to bridge the gap between our generations and start implementing things that are going to work so that they can see patients long term. I the one the other thing I mentioned, just to just to finish this thought, you know, I went to a reunion with my med school friends, and it you know, I'm we're on our mid 50s.

And, and most are really burned out, right? I mean, almost everyone is talking about early retirement. And I think, you know, whatever, everyone can have judgments about that, whether it's good or bad, or there's problems.

I mean, we know there's problems in our healthcare system, there's no question. But I think my goal is to just try to add in some of these things in a community way that allow especially the younger generation to think that they're not just working towards an early retirement goal, that there's meaning in what they do, and that there's longevity that can be there and actually sustainability, because they have the right balance. That's what I'm working toward.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (25:23 - 25:53)

Yeah, I think that early retirement for physicians is a national tragedy. Because you have people who have invested so much time and energy to become good at what they do as healers and for them to drop out of the system before they have to, you know, to retire at 55 instead of 75. Yeah, you've lost 20 years of someone who could contribute in a very positive way.

I mean, that's terrible.

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (25:54 - 25:54)

No question.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (25:55 - 26:04)

Now tell me how your learning in the past few years influences your patient encounters now. What do you do differently?

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (26:06 - 28:15)

Yeah, I think there's a listening that happens. I think I was always empathic and trying to hear perspective, trying to hear and understand and be an acute listener, because I think patients in many ways need that. I mean, I felt like especially when I was doing traditional family medicine for, you know, over 10 years, there were so many people coming in with all these ailments, but really, the underlying issue was they were lonely, or they just don't have anyone to talk to.

And their physician often was the one who would listen. And I felt like, you know, people would leave. And I'm like, I didn't even do anything.

But yet, there was a connection made, you know, maybe I didn't put an order in or give a medication. But there was a connection made that I think really helped people. And I'm trying to take that to the next level with not only understanding, but really, and I talked about this in the book, having the patients advocate for themselves, because I think there's a certain sense if we are too much in the realm of God, this person really needs help, I'm going to get this guidance and this guidance, it really disempowers people, even in medicine, right?

And when we talk about it in other areas of life, in terms of people going around getting recommendations for things and not being able to sort of, you know, vie and fend for themselves and make decisions, but in medicine, it's just as crucial. There's no doubt that it has to be a partnership for I think people to really get better. Otherwise, they just keep feeling like they're in the sick role, and you're giving them the information.

So I love, you know, a lot of what I found, again, by serendipity was like the talks by Rondas, you know, who, who previously was Richard Alpert at Harvard as psychologist and saw patients and taught and then, you know, went on this, this incredible journey that he went on, you know, to find some spirituality, he talks about that a lot. He talks about just not taking people's ability to really engage in their own process, but supporting them along the way. And I think it's subtle, I think it's nuanced, but I'm trying to really put that into place when I talk to people now.

So yes, recommendations, yes, give some guidance. But I think there's a way of doing it that is, yeah, a little bit more balanced and allows patients to feel like they can have their own agency.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (28:16 - 28:54)

Yeah, I concur with the listening. And I'll add that there's this concept that psychiatrists talk about of, of active listening. You know, you're not just sitting there like a stone, letting the words go by and being patient so the patient can vent, you're really listening for, for certain words and certain cues that are going to guide you as to understand what the patient who may not even be aware of what they're trying to say, but that you should actively be listening to try and figure it out so you can help them.

I think that's great.

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (28:55 - 30:21)

I think so. And I hope, I mean, as technology, I mean, you know, everyone, obviously, not everyone, but it's, it's a common trope now to bash on technology and artificial intelligence and all these things. But, you know, what I hope is that we can find a better way of, of sort of, yeah, I would say measuring understanding that, that piece of it, right?

It's, we can send out surveys to patients about how, you know, did they like their care? And we can measure, you know, did they, did they like the parking and was the person nice to him at the front desk and all these things, right? I mean, there's all these measures of what quality care is now, but I think there's something to be said for having some innovation in this space, right?

And not necessarily, I mean, maybe it includes compensating physicians. Definitely. I don't know, but prioritizing that in some way that someone or some groups of someone can come up with and, and really make it an important piece of that experience that comes out and whether, you know, it could be even on just a email encounter, not even necessarily, or a phone encounter.

It, it, it, it can be, I think, measured and looked at in a lot of ways. And I hope that there is in this generational shift and emphasis put back on that piece of it for priority. And yeah, we'll see what that looks like.

I don't know, but I love bringing it up because it, I think I'm not, I don't think I'm gonna be the one that figures it out, but I think people will. And the more we talk about it, then it gives, it gives others ideas that they can churn through.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (30:22 - 30:38)

All right. Now I know you, you've been doing a teaching of young physicians and residents for, for a long time. What would be your, I guess, the essence of your recommendations today for young physicians?

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (30:40 - 32:40)

Quiet contemplation. I think it's all over my book. I think it's for the young and for the old, but especially for those who have spent 10 years, right, post undergrad, grinding, spending their entire twenties, essentially, right.

As most providers do. Just head down, right. And just getting through the work and getting through call night and, you know, learning as much as possible to feel like when you come out, like I'm gonna feel like I'm skilled and qualified and have the understanding to be able to take care of another human being in a significant way that I think it breeds some of that sense of just being in loops and being on automaticity, because I think the, the goal driven set is to get to that point, right. I got to get past fellowship and then I can, then I can breathe, you know, but I think the hard work begins after that, because as you and I know, it's, it's a long-term grind dealing with patients and their challenges that takes a certain amount of patience. And if we don't understand ourselves, I think the burnout rate, I mean, we haven't really gone in depth into burnout, but I think it contributes tremendously.

And so quiet moments that I talk about in the book, little specific, small spots here and there that can add up to something. I didn't want to give more homework to people. I didn't want them to feel like they had to go on retreats and, you know, do all kinds of things that are just, it's, it's not going to fit and they're not going to listen and they're not going to do it.

This had to be something. And what I felt like when reading everything and experienced everything I did after my heart attack was explaining things in a different way and then implementing things that were actually realistic and people were capable of doing in small, like aliquots, my word, my, my Westernized medicine word, but, you know, little small bits here and there that, that add up over time so that you don't feel like you have to jump into something. It's just another hassle, another burden.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (32:41 - 33:18)

One of the funniest posters I ever saw was in the early days of burnout, there was an advertisement for a two day intensive, 10 hour a day relaxation course to cure burnout. And it was like so ironic that, you know, the idea was, you know, we're going to really jump in there and get rid of burnout, which is, of course, was, is the whole problem to begin with. So there was a lot of irony, you know, a complete failure to understand what was going on.

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (33:19 - 33:22)

I like the intent, but probably executed a little bit differently.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (33:22 - 33:28)

Right. Great idea. All right, Dr. Luffman, this has been a great conversation. Is there anything else you would like to add?

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (33:30 - 34:07)

Thank you for the time. I appreciate it. I'm just getting started.

So any support would be wonderful. Everything is really linked and tagged in my website. You can go to saturation of sound dot com to buy the book.

It's on Amazon and other retailers. And I've got all kinds of stuff going on, you know, starting to build on social media, not much of a following yet, but, you know, I'm happy with a slow build and we'll see what happens. Just keep telling my story and hopeful that over time, you know, it will reach people.

And, you know, I'm open to feedback. I'm open to hearing other stories and incorporating that into what I'm trying to build here. So, you know, I'm excited for the future.

Thank you for again, for the time.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (34:08 - 34:10)

What's the best way for people to contact you?

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (34:11 - 34:41)

Yeah, I think the contact page on my website is probably the best way and it'll come directly to me. I'm answering all those now and basically happy to, you know, take inquiries, work with people, work with groups. Would love to, you know, and I'm already planning to go to med schools and nursing schools and talk to groups of therapists and technicians.

You know, I really want to reach people throughout medicine. So, yeah, I would say the contact page on my website is probably the best place to start and, you know, I'll get back to you.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (34:42 - 34:46)

Dr. J. Paul Luffman, thanks for joining me on the Art of Medicine.

[J. Paul Luftman, MD] (34:46 - 34:47)

Thank you.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (34:48 - 37:22)

I'm Dr. Andrew Wilner. See you next time. What makes locumstory.com unique is that it's a peer-to-peer platform with real physicians sharing their experiences and stories, both the good and bad about working locum tenens. Hence the name LocumStory. LocumStory.com is a self-service tool that you can explore at your own pace with no pressure or obligation. It's completely free.

Thanks again to LocumStory.com for sponsoring this episode of the Art of Medicine. I'm Dr. Andrew Wilner. See you next time.

This program is hosted, edited, and produced by Andrew Wilner, MD, FACP, FAAN. Guests receive no financial compensation for their appearance on The Art of Medicine. Andrew Wilner, MD, is a professor of neurology at the University of Tennessee Health Science Center in Memphis, Tennessee.

Views, thoughts, and opinions expressed on this program belong solely to Dr. Wilner and his guests and not necessarily to their employers, organizations, other group, or individual. While this program intends to be informative, it is meant for entertainment purposes only. The Art of Medicine does not offer professional, financial, legal, or medical advice.

Dr. Wilner and his guests assume no responsibility or liability for any damages, financial or otherwise, that arise in connection with consuming this program's content. Thanks for watching. For more episodes of The Art of Medicine, please follow on YouTube or your favorite podcast player.

Please share with your friends and subscribe. www.andrewWilner.com