Pet Longevity Tips with Kevin Toman, DVM

Many thanks to Kevin Toman, DVM, for joining me on The Art of Medicine with Dr. Andrew Wilner. Kevin graduated from veterinary school back in 1986 and has more than 40 years of clinical experience. More recently, he has become a pioneer in pet longevity medicine and pet cancer navigation. He now runs his telemedicine longevity practice out of his home in California.

During our 30-minute discussion, Kevin emphasized the importance of diet and lifestyle for pets. His recommendations should resonate with all of us humans who are trying to optimize our health, which includes plenty of exercise but avoiding exercise that puts undue stress on our joints, and a healthy diet, which means healthy foods to achieve a lean body weight (the opposite of what many of us accomplish!). Kevin suggested that a dog’s diet should mirror that of its owner, with a preponderance of fresh meat and vegetables.

Kevin also weighed in on nutritional supplements and pet insurance. When choosing a veterinarian, he strongly advised finding an independent, American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA)-approved practice. 

For questions, Kevin can be reached at Ktomandvm@gmail.com or on his websites:

www.HelpingPetsLiveLonger.com and www.freevetcall.com

#pets #veterinarian #petlongevity #AAHA #petinsurance

Please click "Fanmail" and share your feedback!

If you enjoy an episode, please share with friends and colleagues. "The Art of Medicine with Dr. Andrew Wilner" is now available on Alexa! Just say, "Play podcast The Art of Medicine with Dr. Andrew Wilner!" 

To never miss a program, subscribe at www.andrewwilner.com. 

Follow me on Instagram: @andrewwilnermd

X: @drwilner

linkedin.com/in/drwilner 

Please rate and review each episode. 

To contact Dr. Wilner or to join the mailing list: www.andrewwilner.com

This production has been made possible in part by support from “The Art of Medicine's” wonderful sponsor, Locumstory.com, a resource where providers can get real, unbiased answers about locum tenens. If you are interested in locum tenens, or considering a new full-time position, please go to Locumstory.com.

Or paste this link into your browser:

https://locumstory.com/?source=DSP_directbuy_drwilnerpodcast...

Transcript

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (0:08 - 1:20)

Welcome to the Art of Medicine, the program that explores the arts, business, and clinical aspects of the practice of medicine. I'm your host, Dr. Andrew Wilner. I've planned a great program for today, but first, a word from our sponsor, locumstory.com.

Locumstory.com is a free, unbiased educational resource about locum tenens. It's not an agency. Locumstory answers your questions on their website, podcast, webinars, videos, and they even have a locums 101 crash course.

Learn about locums and get insights from real-life physicians, PAs, and NPs at locumstory.com. And now to my guest. Today, I have the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Kevin Toman. Kevin is a different kind of doctor than I usually interview. He's a doctor of veterinary medicine, but Kevin still deals with life and death, and pets can indeed be loved ones, perhaps as much or sometimes more than human family members. Kevin is going to share his experience regarding keeping pets healthy, which can result in longer lives and better quality of life.

Welcome, Dr. Kevin Toman.

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (1:20 - 1:39)

Well, thank you very much, Dr. Andrew. I really appreciate everything that you do. You know, I'm tiptoeing into this podcasting world, and so I'm just learning how difficult it is to keep things moving on a weekly or bi-weekly podcast.

My hat is off to you, and I'm sure your listeners appreciate everything that you do.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (1:39 - 2:12)

Well, maybe. The Art of Medicine now is in its seventh year. I think you're going to be episode number 168, maybe.

It's a lot of fun, and I do appreciate those who watch the YouTube version or listen on their podcast streamers. Frankly, it gives me an opportunity to meet and talk in a pretty intimate way with strangers who are doing really interesting things with their lives, like yourself. Now, did you mention that you have a podcast?

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (2:13 - 2:36)

No, I'm considerate, but I'm a little bit intimidated by the amount of work you put in. So, you know, right now I'm in the guest mode as opposed to the podcasting mode, but it's something that I'm looking at for much the same reason. I do believe that there are a number of different stories in medicine that need to be told, and there aren't as many forums for that as you and I would like.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (2:37 - 3:01)

Well, I'm thinking, I'm trying to envision this, you know, you can't really interview the pets, but maybe you could interview the pet owners. You know, the pet shows up, the owner shows up, on Johnny Carson, do you remember those days? They would bring in an animal, and he would run around the desk and climb onto Johnny, and then they'd talk about it.

Boy, that dates us, doesn't it? It does date us a little bit.

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (3:01 - 3:06)

I think some of your listeners may not understand that reference, but I remember it quite well.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (3:07 - 3:11)

All right, so what are you doing now? What do you do now? What's your day-to-day?

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (3:12 - 3:50)

Well, after 40 years in clinical practice, I took a step back from that, a step back from general practice, and I began a longevity practice, which to the best of my knowledge, Doc, is the only longevity veterinary practice in the United States. And so I use a combination of telemedicine, and I do work closely with local veterinarians, but telemedicine, diet, lifestyle, traditional veterinary care, supplements, and even prescription longevity drugs like rapamycin and Acarbose that come directly from your line of work, the human medical field, as trickle-downs into the veterinary field.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (3:51 - 5:09)

Well, I do have a longevity story, a pet longevity story. Back when I was a resident in neurology, I did my neurology residency in Canada, and that's important because in Canada, this was back in 1985, and I wanted a pet. But as residents in those days, you're working 80 to 100 hours a week, even something as straightforward as a dog or cat was too demanding.

So I ended up getting two pond turtles, those with the red slider, and those had recently been legislated against. Remember that? You used to go in the pet stores in the old days, and there'd be hundreds of these pond turtles, and the kids would pick them up and stick them in their mouths, and then they'd get salmonella.

So then they said, we can't sell those anymore. But in Canada, you could still buy them. So that's how Canada came in.

So I bought two of them. Long story short, the last one, a male, died last year. I had him from 1985 to 2025.

A little pond turtle. Of course, he grew up to be a big pond turtle, and I had him in a giant 55-gallon aquarium.

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (5:10 - 5:12)

So how big was he at adulthood?

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (5:12 - 6:11)

About the size of a dinner plate, a nice-sized dinner plate. And he thrived on neglect. I could go away for a week or two weeks and leave him some food, and he was fine.

I didn't have to change it. I had a gigantic filter to keep the water clear, and he had a big rock and a sun lamp. He's just the greatest pet.

And then he got some sort of, in fact, you might know about this, some sort of erosion on his shell. And I brought him to the vet, and he prescribed some antibiotics, and I read about this. There's a fungus apparently affecting some turtle shells, but it wasn't really clear what it was.

And I think eventually, after six months or so, I don't know if that's what did him in, but he kind of got a little listless. And I read about it that 40 years was actually a pretty good run. And I know he was that old, because when I got him, he was about the size of a quarter.

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (6:12 - 6:20)

Well, it speaks volumes about your turtle fatherhood. You're a prince among men when it comes to turtle raising.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (6:21 - 6:28)

So what could I have done better for longevity? Well, if I had brought him to you and said, I want this guy to live forever, what can we do?

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (6:29 - 7:14)

Well, see, here's where, you know, I'm your contemporary. I graduated from veterinary school back in 1986, Doc. And so it's easier for me, it's much easier for me to admit the limits of my knowledge now than it was back then.

And so I'm going to suggest to you that you're probably, between the two of us, you are likely the smarter when it comes to turtle medicine. Now, I can speak at length to dogs and cats. And I think, honestly, the evidence-based, the science that is out there suggests that you and I can help our dogs or our cats live up to 25%, 28% longer than their genetics would dictate.

And that's kind of the sweet spot for where what I am so passionate about, what I do on a daily basis.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (7:16 - 7:32)

So I presume regular exercise, everybody knows you got to walk your dog, right? So regular exercise is part of that, and a healthy diet. Now, I don't have a dog or cat, and I know sometimes the food's in a can, and sometimes it's in a bag, and sometimes it's table scraps.

Does it matter?

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (7:33 - 9:47)

Yeah, it does. And so let's talk, because, you know, I look at longevity science, at least for my patients, as kind of a four-legged chair, four-legged stool. And the first of those legs is very definitely the two things that you spoke about, diet and lifestyle.

And so I'm going to suggest when it comes to diet that, let me take a step back. It's very easy for pet parents to call me or text me or email me these days and say, listen, I want prescription longevity drugs. And, you know, I'm happy to work with them on a prescription basis, Doc, and, you know, charge them anywhere between $100 and $200 a month.

But what if I told you that the simplest way to increase your pet's longevity could actually save you money? Because in every mammal, excuse me, in every species studied to date, whether we're talking about fish or elephants or cats or dogs or likely even turtles, the one mechanism that has been proven to extend life in every species studied to date is calorie restriction. So in general, simply feeding your pet less will actually add years, or add months anyway, to their lives.

Now, the second component to that is dietary quality. And that's where your question around kibbles or cans comes to bear. Because I would tell you that as that 66-year-old, for 50 years of my life, Doc, I've recommended and I fed my dogs kibbled diets.

But there's clear evidence these days that tells us that the standard kibble diets are actually pretty darn unhealthy for our dogs or for our cats. Why? Because each kibble contains inordinate amounts of carbohydrates.

They need starches to keep those kibbles glommed together. And then you run those starches through a 450 or 500 degree oven, and you end up not just with brown kibbles, but also a little bit of carcinogens in there, a little bit of these advanced glycation end products. And so there's ample, there are any number of studies these days that tell us that, you know, the closer dogs and cats can eat to the way you and I should eat, you know, a preponderance of fresher meats and vegetables, a preponderance of vegetables on a rotating basis, the longer they will live.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (9:48 - 10:38)

Seems to be, I had a nutritionist on this program a little while back, and we talked about ultra processed foods and processed foods. And that if you, and not necessarily bad, but if you want it to be healthy, the less processed the food was. Notice if you could grow it in your, she said, basically, if it comes in a package, you shouldn't eat it.

That you can make it yourself from raw ingredients or grow it in the backyard. That's what's really healthy. And I also wanted to add the longevity, you know, there's an equation longevity is proportional to healthy diet plus calorie restrictions.

I'm tempted to say that probably applies to human beings.

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (10:39 - 10:57)

You know, I think that there are certainly parallels that can be drawn, you know, because I'm guessing that one of the hallmarks of many of your patients to this day is likely, you know, some of them are overweight and, you know, that's a huge issue for veterinarians as well. Let me tell you an anecdote here.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (10:57 - 11:00)

I didn't know that. I didn't know a dog could be like fat. You can have a fat dog.

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (11:00 - 11:56)

Oh yeah. Yeah. But it's interesting.

And very few pet parents actually recognize that. In fact, you know, as somebody who was in private practice for many years, you know, 10 or 15 years ago was kind of the heyday of the biggest loser shows on TV. Yeah.

And so I thought, what a practice builder. I'm going to send emails out to my 5000 plus clients and have them join a biggest loser contest here in my clinic. And I'll offer $1,000 in veterinary care and I'll help them with all the interventions, dietary planning, exercise, this and that.

And, you know, out of that 5100 emailed questionnaires that I sent out, how many responses I got back? Not a single one. Not a single pet parent identified their pet as being obese.

Now that is clearly not the case with my patients and it's clearly not the case with yours.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (11:56 - 11:59)

Well, love is in the eye of the beholder maybe.

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (12:00 - 12:04)

Yeah. That's what my girlfriend says.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (12:06 - 12:18)

Well, that's fascinating, you know, because obviously recognition of the problem is step one. It's like, well, I'm not overweight. It was like, well, look at your dog.

It looks like a balloon. It's probably.

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (12:19 - 12:19)

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (12:20 - 12:33)

Yeah. But that's very interesting. I could see, you know, it's not a routine to maybe it is in your office, but, you know, I've never thought about it.

I got a doctor's appointment this afternoon and I know when I go, they're going to weigh me. I mean, do you weigh the pets when they come in?

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (12:34 - 14:02)

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And that's kind of a routine in our line of work.

And, and so I'm going to hopscotch back off that to the exercise component that you mentioned a couple of minutes ago. And that is that, you know, everybody typically equates exercise with health doc, but I would, I would suspect that in both your line of work and mine, the reality is that there's sometimes a fine line between healthy forms of exercise and unhealthy forms of exercise. So again, acknowledging that I can spend hundreds of dollars for people in helping their pets live longer.

Another way that they can do that is simply to, to minimize the stairs. You know, how many times, especially a small dog or a cat goes running up and down the stairs over the course of a day, because if in fact you're only 12 or 14 inches tall, as a preponderance of small dogs are, the reality is that these eight inch stairs are like you and me doing a box jumps, you know, four foot up, four foot down, four foot up, four foot down. And so whatever you and I can do to minimize concussion longer term, whether it be things as simple as buying a child's gate to prevent dogs and cats from going up and down the stairs, giving them a ramp as they get into and out of a car, buying a cheap little set of stairs for, you know, if your dog or your cat jumps up and down off the furniture, things like that make a huge difference in terms of keeping our pets comfortable longer term.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (14:02 - 14:07)

That's interesting because my instinct would have been, you know, he's a dog, he likes to jump, you know.

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (14:08 - 14:59)

Yeah. Yeah. Dogs.

I think on dogs on an evolutionary basis were probably great walkers, trotters and runners, but they didn't do an awful lot of jumping. They didn't do an awful lot of lateral motion. And so, you know, another thing that, that I counsel people against are the days of playing Frisbee in the park.

You know, a tennis ball is much more, much healthier for a dog than Frisbee because that tennis ball floats in or is thrown in a linear direction. But as dogs jump to catch a Frisbee, I can't count the number of times who have jumped off four legs and landed on three. You know, they blow up an ACL, you know, they rupture a cruciate ligament with the same results that your orthopedic colleagues run into.

And so there are healthy forms of exercise that will increase lifespan. But unfortunately, there's a few forms of exercise that will also shorten it.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (15:00 - 15:05)

How about for our cat owners? Any good or bad exercise there?

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (15:06 - 16:09)

No cats. I mean, you're lucky if you can get them off the couch, really. I mean, that's, you know, and so I do have, there's probably, I'm going to say four or 5% of cats will, will go for walks with their pet parents.

You know, they'll put a leash and collar on them and away they go. But that leaves 95% of cats who don't. And so realistically, I mean, you've asked a very salient question in cat longevity medicine is, are there ways to increase exercise for cats?

And of course, there are laser pointers. And if you and I were to watch late night TV, they actually have little cat treadmills, you know, kind of the same thing that you and I would hop on as we watch Oprah Winfrey or whatever the case may be. And, you know, so I'm not sure how effective any of those are.

At the end of the day, you and I can control weight in dogs very easily through a combination of decreasing calorie intake and increasing calorie expenditure. Cats, we are almost left, almost always left with just the one lever of reducing calorie intake.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (16:09 - 16:27)

So I've got this visual of a cat on a treadmill. I've got a treadmill in the other room. And in front of the cat is a hamster on a hamster wheel.

So you got the hamster going, and then you got the cat trying to catch the hamster. And both of them are getting, you know, burning some calories.

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (16:28 - 16:51)

Yeah, absolutely. And I'll put a little hamster food out in front, you know, and you're killing an awful lot of them proverbial birds at once. I like that.

Now you mentioned- And then put a dog behind the cat. I mean, why stop there? You make it all hysterical.

That's right. Well, I'm glad you have a big enough house to devote a whole room to this project here.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (16:51 - 16:52)

Yes, we're lucky.

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (16:53 - 17:01)

Because then, I mean, taken to an extreme, you could be walking behind your dog, you know? And the reality is we could just add, you know, there are any number of treadmills we can add to this loop.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (17:02 - 17:16)

I like it. I like it. Well, bottom line, exercise is the way to go.

Now, people always ask about supplements. You know, I take a daily vitamin. That's as far as I'm going to go.

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (17:16 - 17:17)

Okay.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (17:17 - 17:21)

But where are supplements in this equation?

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (17:22 - 20:04)

Well, they're another leg of that stool, to be sure. And I kind of got into the supplement line of work because when I was about 45, Doc, I was diagnosed by a GP down in southwestern Colorado, where I was living, as having myeloma on the basis of serum electrophoresis. And so I referred down to the Mayo Clinic and found that I have a precursor condition called monoclonal gammopathy of unknown significance, or MGUS.

And so, like anybody, yeah, a lot better. And actually, mine is a B cell, and so they feel like that's a pretty benign condition, IgG. But the reality is it scared the hell out of me.

Scared the hell out of me. And so, as science wonks are prone to do, I tried to do all the research and what could help prevent the progression from the relatively benign condition of MGUS to what is essentially a fatal case of myeloma. And there were no pharmaceuticals then, and to this day, there are no pharmaceuticals that prevent that transformation.

But there is a spice, curcumin. And so that was really what opened the door into integrative or supplement therapy for me, was the fact that curcumin has been shown to vastly reduce the odds of that malignant transformation from occurring. And so, with that as a precursor then, I began using curcumin and a number of other natural supplements in my daily practice, and that extends to this day.

But here's the thing. I mean, as science-based kids like you and me, the reality is we know that science changes. And things that I sold in my practice for over two decades, glucosamine and chondroitin products, have been proven these days ineffective, ineffective in your patients, ineffective in mine, at reducing joint inflammation and discomfort.

Resveratrol, you know, has been bandied about for years as being a healthy, you know, it's the perfect reason to drink red wine, to get the resveratrol for its purported health benefits. But unfortunately, that's been disproven as well. And so I think it's incumbent upon us, not just as scientists, but as supplement users, to kind of pick and choose with the basis of science for our pets.

And so, at the end, I would close this paragraph by just saying, listen, the needs of a 10-pound dog from a supplement perspective are vastly different from a 40-pound dog, and that dog is entirely different from a cat. And so, I tend to think of supplement therapy as being a critical part of longevity science, but one that is approached on a customized and individual basis.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (20:06 - 20:26)

Let me just switch gears for a second. As a very experienced veterinarian, suppose I, there's a petco around the corner there, and they've always got cats and dogs, and I get tempted now and then. But I know I'll need a veterinarian.

How do I know if a veterinarian is any good? Like, how do you pick a veterinarian?

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (20:27 - 23:13)

You know, now we're getting down. I guess the gloves have come off in this conversation here. You know, that's an interesting conversation to have, Doc, because I'm going to tell you in candor that I believe private practice, veterinary medicine, in the United States is broken.

And in large part, it's been broken by the entry of these big corporate veterinary acquirers. In fact, the people that make the Mars bar, the Mars candy bars that you and I grew up on back in the day while we were playing baseball is now the single biggest owner of veterinary clinics worldwide. And what has happened, though, is that as a result of this corporate intrusion, there's kind of an arms race for veterinarians.

So young veterinarians, fresh out of school, are being hired at relatively exorbitant salaries before they pick up any practical knowledge. And they're being told, listen, you can only spend 15 minutes in an exam room, and you can, you have to recommend this set of vaccines for every dog that comes in, regardless of what they look like. You have to recommend this set, this, you have a formula.

You can only use this set of drugs if you're dealing with an abscess. And so a great deal of the discretion and the relationship building that I held myself to when I was in clinical practice has disappeared. And when you couple that, finally, with a percentage compensation, and most veterinarians are given a base salary of, I don't know, let's say 100K these days, but they're also reimbursed with 21 to 24 percent of every dollar that they make for your veterinary clinic.

And so somewhere along the way, there's been a disconnect that is established between pet parents and what they need most, which is a relationship that is centered around their pet's health and what is being offered by many veterinarians here in the United States. So now I'm going to actually sneak back and answer your question and say that if I was, if I, as an experienced veterinarian, were looking for a veterinarian from this 18-month-old golden retriever puppy who is snoozing to me, snoozing next to me on the sofa here, I'm going to say this. I would look for a practice that is in fact owned by a veterinarian instead of a corporate entity.

And I would look for veterinary practices that are AHA, A-A-H-A certified. The American Animal Hospital Association or AHA has a voluntary certification program that mandates just a tremendously high level of clinical care, record keeping, anesthetic monitoring, I mean, just everything from soup to nuts in veterinary practice. And if you have an AHA practice in your area, that would be a great choice for you to establish your pet's care with.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (23:14 - 23:51)

Great. That's great guidance. And unfortunately, what you were describing with corporate ownership of private practice sounded frighteningly familiar with what has happened to many medical practices with private equity.

And what you emphasize that people need is that relationship. And that's what's being sacrificed as the relationship becomes for the physician or the veterinarian becomes more direct with their employer owner than with their patient.

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (23:51 - 23:53)

Well said. It's rough.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (23:54 - 23:58)

Where does pet insurance come in? Is that a thing?

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (23:59 - 25:54)

Pet insurance is a huge thing. It's a billion dollar industry with a B here in the United States. And there are a number of different providers.

Most home insurance companies, most life insurance companies do have a pet division these days. And it's hard, Doc, because I would tell you that if you and I were aligned, I would counsel you, listen, instead of paying your pet insurance company $500 a month, and if you don't use that payment, it just simply disappears. Why not put $500 into a specific savings account for your pets?

And the voluntary component of that is difficult for many folks. And I acknowledge that. But that would really be the best form of insurance for you.

The questions around pet insurance are, in many ways, just exactly what you would, they mirror the human health insurance market. Are there pre-existing conditions? Because insurers tend to look very closely at that.

Is dental disease covered? Because dental disease in pets is a very good way, Doc, for you to spend $1,000 to $2,000 a year protecting the health of your small dog or your cat. And many pet health insurers do not cover dental care.

Do they carry, do they cover routine diagnostics? You know, the CBC chems, UAs that your patients and mine should be doing on an annual basis. And so there are a lot of nuances there.

And I think that there are some good health plans, but the reality is it's very much caveat emptor, you know, buyer beware, because there are some really bad ones out there too. And so if you're going to go that route, make sure that if you have a small dog or a cat, that your health insurer covers dental care and get them insured early in the game, because no matter whether you walk on two legs or four, preexisting conditions tend to add up over time rather than disappear.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (25:56 - 26:41)

You know, in the movies, there's some guy that gets shot, you know, and he's got a wound and he wants to stay under the radar. He can't go to the hospital. So he always ends up going to the veterinarian to get fixed up.

And so is there anything fundamentally different about, you know, I've always been kind of odd, you know, as a, as a human doctor, there's one set of anatomy and physiology, but as a veterinarian, you know, you've got everything from turtles, you know, to birds, to dogs and cats and a lot of different anatomies, but is there anything fundamentally different about human and pet physiology? Like one medicine you give to a person, it's great, but you give it to a dog, it kills the dog or are there?

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (26:41 - 27:43)

In general, I would say my parent, my patients talk less, but my patients are perhaps more honest than your patients are. And so, no, I mean, that's kind of a flip answer, but the reality is that, yeah, I mean, there is logic to pat myself on the back and say, oh gosh, you know, I mean, a cat and a dog, they do have different, there are species specific changes in physiology, but the reality is that in very large part, your medications work every bit as well for my patients as they do for yours. And so, you know, the same gas anesthetics, the same injectable anesthetics, the same, the same steroids or, or antibiotics, you know, scalpel blade is a scalpel blade.

And so the honest truth is that probably 95% of veterinary medicines, sir, trickled down from, from human medicine. And that would probably always be the same due to the, due to the economics of veterinary profession.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (27:44 - 27:51)

So if I do need that repair under the radar, a vet might be, might be a good, good.

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (27:51 - 28:33)

Yeah. Listen, if you, if you, if you rob a bank, you know, on your way to the Philippines here in a couple of months, the reality is that your local veterinary might be able to help you out. And so I would, I would say off, strictly off the record, of course, that I have, I lived in rural areas, you know, especially in Colorado.

And so there are people walking around with, with x-rays that I took of their leg or their, their arm. There, there are people who are walking around with a scar, you know, with sutures that I put in back in the day. And, and, you know, I think it, it's part of being a part of a community when you live in these rural areas.

And so, because the nearest doctor was sometimes a long ways away. So yeah, I mean, mea culpa on that one.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (28:34 - 28:44)

Good to know. All right. Well, we're running out of time to wrap this up.

I got one final question. Can dogs and cats get along in the same house?

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (28:45 - 29:08)

Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, the key to that is that to introduce them to each other when they are young, because when they are young, you know, they're, they're much more playful and much more accepting, probably like us when you get right down to it.

And so if you want to introduce dogs and cats to one another, the earlier in life you do it, the better off you'll be.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (29:09 - 29:14)

All right. Well, Kevin, how can people get in touch with you if they're interested in learning more about pet longevity?

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (29:15 - 30:07)

Well, thank you very much for that. Yeah. I run two different websites.

One is simply www.helpingpetslivelonger.com because that's exactly what my team and I do seven days a week, using a combination of these diet strategies, lifestyle, some traditional veterinary care along the way, supplements and prescription drugs like rapamycin and A-carbos. But the other website that I have is much simpler yet. That is simply www.freevetcall.com.

It's set up for podcast listeners of yours, and it's just a one-page website doc that links directly to my calendar. So if your listeners have questions about their pet's health, about a longevity strategy, even something as simple as a vaccine, I'm happy to help them at no charge at www.freevetcall.com. We are all in this together.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (30:08 - 30:21)

Oh, fantastic. Well, I'll put that info in the show notes, and you said it very clearly. So I'm sure you'll get a few calls.

All right. Dr. Kevin Tillman, thanks for joining me on the Art of Medicine.

[Kevin Toman, DVM] (30:22 - 30:34)

Dr. Wilner, thank you very much. It's been wonderful. I'd love to come back.

I mean, I feel like there's a lot more that we could talk about. So I enjoyed this, and my hat is off to you for all the work you put into this.

[Andrew Wilner, MD] (30:34 - 33:04)

And now a final thanks to our sponsor, locumstory.com. Locumstory.com is a free, unbiased educational resource about locum tenens. It's not an agency.

LocumStory exists to answer your questions about the how-to's of locums on their website, podcast, webinars, and videos. They even have a locums 101 crash course. At locumstory.com, you can discover if locum tenens make sense for you and your career goals. What makes locumstory.com unique is that it's a peer-to-peer platform with real physicians sharing their experiences and stories, both the good and bad, about working locum tenens. Hence the name LocumStory. LocumStory.com is a self-service tool that you can explore at your own pace with no pressure or obligation. It's completely free. Thanks again to locumstory.com for sponsoring this episode of The Art of Medicine. I'm Dr. Andrew Wilner. See you next time. This program is hosted, edited, and produced by Andrew Wilner, MD, FACP, FAAN. Guests receive no financial compensation for their appearance on The Art of Medicine.

Andrew Wilner, MD, is a professor of neurology at the University of Tennessee Health Science Center in Memphis, Tennessee. Views, thoughts, and opinions expressed on this program belong solely to Dr. Wilner and his guests and not necessarily to their employers, organizations, other group, or individual. While this program intends to be informative, it is meant for entertainment purposes only.

The Art of Medicine does not offer professional, financial, legal, or medical advice. Dr. Wilner and his guests assume no responsibility or liability for any damages, financial or otherwise, that arise in connection with consuming this program's content. Thanks for watching.

For more episodes of The Art of Medicine, please follow on YouTube or your favorite podcast player. Please share with your friends and subscribe. www.andrewWilner.com